Re: [piecepack] New game in the making - Camelot

[Ron Hale-Evans <rwhe@...>]

On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 12:00:16AM -0000, boycat_oh wrote:
> Version 1.0 of the rules to Camelot have been posted to the files 
> section.  The main mechanism is bidding for the characters 
> (King Arthur, Lady Guinevere, Merlin and Sir Lancelot) which 
> allow a specific action to be taken by all players.  Camelot was 
> inspired by games such as Puerto Rico and Citadels.
> 
> I would appreciate feedback from anyone who takes the time to 
> read the rules and imagine a game, or who can actually playtest.  
> I believe that 2, 3 and 4 player games should play very differently 
> requiring different strategic approaches within the same theme.
> 
> Areas of special interest to me are:
> 
> 1) Is this game way too close to another game for comfort?  (I 
> tried to be orginal, but also I haven't played or come across every 
> game ever made either)

I don't think the game is too close to any other games.  And after
all, Bruno Faidutti admits he cribbed the central mechanic from
Verrater, and Verrater (IMHO) probably cribbed it from Hoax (Eon
Games), the first game to feature this mechanic, AFAIK.  BTW, Citadels
is one of my very favourite games, and I am glad to see that the
piecepack now has a game in this genre!

I do have a (constructive, I hope) criticism that has to do with
Camelot's being _not enough_ like other games in this genre.  Probably
it's due to my misunderstanding what you are trying to accomplish with
your game design, so the advice may only be worth what you're paying
for it.  As I see it, the main problem is that the actions of the
various characters are for the most part simply _phases of the game_
that just happen to occur on the character's turn.  For example,
Merlin's action reads, "Each player must exchange a courtier from
their court with one of the aspirants."  Since this happens almost
every turn, instead of being the meat of the character, it seems more
like the "Courtier Exchange Phase", which just happens to occur when
it's Merlin's turn.

By contrast, consider Citadels and Hoax.  In these games, the actions
of the characters belong to those characters alone, and are often
targeted on another player.  For example, in Citadels, the Assassin
assassinates one of the other characters.  In both Citadels and Hoax,
the Thief can steal tokens from one of the other characters/players.
Etc.

I think you have fixed this somewhat in Camelot 1.1; for example,
Lancelot's action now reads, "Starting with the player to your left
and moving clockwise exchange one of your courtiers with one courtier
belonging to each opponent.  Only the player who chooses Lancelot
carries out this role."  Extending this, it would be more appropriate
if Merlin's role (for example) read something like, "Merlin may
exchange any number of courtiers from his court with aspirants."  Only
Merlin would be acting, and it would truly be _Merlin's_ action rather
than a "Courtier Exchange Phase".

Apart from this criticism (which as I said may well be worth what you
paid for it), I think the game looks very interesting.  I have a
couple of further comments, but they are mere niggles.

> 7) Any problems downloading the document?  With the diagram 
> in the doc?  I can, eventually, place this on the web if there are 
> problems.

I had some problems with printing version 1.0 of the document; the
left-hand margin was too wide by some inches, according to the version
of Word I used at my wife's office.  1.1 is printing just fine for me.

> Thanks very much for any time you might take to look at this 
> prototype.

Since this is a prototype and not a finished game, it might be better
if you gave it a number lower than 1.1; perhaps 0.2, depending on how
many versions you went through privately before you sent it out.

Another minor niggle: there is already a superb abstract strategy game
called Camelot that has been around since the 19th Century and is
well-known enough to have several web pages devoted to it, as well as
a World Camelot Federation; you might want to consider changing the
name of your game to something more distinctive.

One more thing: you might want to say in your "Equipment to play" line
that it requires two piecepacks, rather than just the coins from a
second piecepack, since you presumably want to use the pawns from the
second piecepack as well.

I hope all this isn't too negative.  I wouldn't have devoted this much
time to criticising your prototype if I hadn't thought this game is
going to be stellar after a couple of more iterations.

Best,

Ron H-E

-- 
         Ron Hale-Evans ... rwhe@... & rwhe@...
           Center for Ludic Synergy, Seattle Cosmic Game Night, 
Kennexions Glass Bead Game &  Positive Revolution FAQ: http://www.ludism.org/
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